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gblvr after sanj's lovely and LotR-filled party, we got onto the trickiness of writing Remus Lupin.
Our favorite werewolf is many things -- a good teacher, a perceptive fellow, a somewhat shifty character when the times call for it -- but he's incredibly frustrating to write.
Mostly because his defining personality trait is that he will not stick his neck out one little bit -- unless there is a great big reward in return for his risk. He will not do anything simply because it's the right thing to do, or because it's his responsibility to do the right thing.
He'll happily step back and avoid a nasty situation, even though he could easily have intervened, because he isn't interested in helping for the sake of helping. He's passive-aggressive and profoundly self-focused.
Does anyone else find him smack-worthy because of this? Especially when trying to write and he holds the entire plot up because he won't help when the plot needs him to?
gblvr after sanj's lovely and LotR-filled party, we got onto the trickiness of writing Remus Lupin.Our favorite werewolf is many things -- a good teacher, a perceptive fellow, a somewhat shifty character when the times call for it -- but he's incredibly frustrating to write.
Mostly because his defining personality trait is that he will not stick his neck out one little bit -- unless there is a great big reward in return for his risk. He will not do anything simply because it's the right thing to do, or because it's his responsibility to do the right thing.
He'll happily step back and avoid a nasty situation, even though he could easily have intervened, because he isn't interested in helping for the sake of helping. He's passive-aggressive and profoundly self-focused.
Does anyone else find him smack-worthy because of this? Especially when trying to write and he holds the entire plot up because he won't help when the plot needs him to?
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I totally feel this. A lot of the characters I write, you nudge them a little and they'll do just about anything you need them to do. I spend a lot of time plotting fics out loud with
Drives me crazy!
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Plus points: Lupin is a bit of a cypher really, you can find a lot of leeway.
Negs: Get it wrong and it sticks out like a sore thumb. The big pitfall is to write a wimp.
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Based on that evidence, I would say that, rather than not sticking his neck out when there is no reward, it is only when there is a disadvantage for him that he won't stick his neck out.
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The only really risky thing was joing the Order right out of school, and that I'd say was a lot peer pressure there. Remus seems to be susceptible to other people's opinions.
I would say that, rather than not sticking his neck out when there is no reward, it is only when there is a disadvantage for him that he won't stick his neck out.
Err, maybe we have different definition of 'stick his neck out'. I see it as doing something when there is a definite risk attached.
You see it as... doing something when you don't have to whether or not there is risk attached?
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Hence, I think that for him teaching Harry the Patronus charm was more risky than joining the Order. Prior to that, he seemed to have gone out of his way not to get too close to Harry. And again standing up to Molly (and that's the risk I was referring to, not trouble with the Order) is about emotional risk. Joining the Order would have been much less risky, though you are right there would have been emotional risk in not joining.
As to how susceptible he is to other people's opinions, I would say that there is a large difference between Remus as an adult and Remus as a teenager. With the one exception of Dumbledore, he doesn't exactly appear to be a pushover as an adult. When that changed, who knows, but I would say it was already starting to happen when we see him in Snape's memory. He didn't appear to be anyone's flunky, unlike Peter.
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It was kind of irritating, now that I think of it...
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In some ways, but not others ...
In all truth, I think you're correct on some points, and not on others. Namely, I don't see him entirely and only self-focused to the point where he excludes helping others for the sake of doing so. Instead, I see him being incredibly moody about it. Sometimes, he's there before anyone else can so much as offer a hand; other times, he couldn't find more things to focus upon in order to avoid having to be called in to assist. It's very curious, that way.
I don't find him smackworthy -- at least, not always. It's a personality dichotomy borne of a lot things: greater than average experience and therefore fear of abandonment, difficult familial life, financial destitution, unemployment depression, deep and personal desire for self-sufficiency -- somewhat tied to the abandonment issues, transience, the loss of the loyalty of others, injustice, dealing with dishonesty, and overall, feeling 'shafted' after constantly giving one's all.
So, when it comes to Lupin, I've looked for evidence in supporting my potential theory of mood. He seems the easily depressive type, too, and I think that has a lot to do with it. One moment, he's somewhat confident that things'll all turn out all right. The next? Doldrums. He sucks, you suck, everything about everything sucks; he's a personal failure, and there are a thousand things he can cite as the reasons for it, including a good bout of self-loathing.
Now, I may be way off-base here, but this is one of the reasons why he intrigued me so much. And why it bothers me when people write him all soft and fluffy, everyone's best friend, there at the drop of a hat, no matter what. A doormat. He's not a weak personality, however, because of his fear of abandonment, he's got a 50 / 50 shot of either going to the ends of the earth for you, or avoiding you completely -- if he's internally decided that you'll just screw him over eventually; so why bother? (As I said, mood.)
I do think he's capable of real trust and loving deeply -- it'll just take him overcoming a good bit of issues. As a teacher, I feel he's very idealistic and tried the best that he could to reach the students in an unorthodox, practical manner. (Doesn't it seem all of the exceptional teachers in fiction use practical lessons and are a bit quirky in how they are so dedicated to reaching the students?) As can be evidenced from his years at Hogwarts, he requires productivity in order to satisfy a personal need, and I feel that teaching did this, and he dedicated himself to his students with a genuine desire to help and set them on their way the best that he could. It's continual disappointment that's been the problem. If anything, Remus is a jaded idealist. He's been kicked in the teeth so many times, he asks himself if he's a fool for trying; and once he does try, sometime thereafter, he continually questions himself, never satisfied that his trying was the best decision to make. Personal statements such as "I'm too nice / forgiving / understanding," and / or, "I need to be more firm / less lenient / more of a jerk." Because nice guys finish last, and he's sick of finishing last.
I think he is the most responsible character of the Marauder Era, however. Despite his own personal faults, I feel he has a great deal of emotional maturity as a result of his ordered processing of most things. If you'll notice, nothing that he does seems random, and is almost always, carefully planned, and calculated. If he takes risks, they're done with an innumerable amount of forethought. In fact, I think it's that he gets stuck in the planning phase (and daunted by his depressive mindset) which is interpreted as a lack of desire to step up to the plate.
But I could muse upon this for hours, heh.
Thoughts?
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Well, if you can get Remus to a point where everyone will notice that he's not doing the right thing, he'll do the right thing. He functions decently in a group, which is why he seems quite competent when the Advanced Guard comes for Harry.
It's only when he's alone and it is his responsibility alone to get things done right that he ignores his responsibilites and does what is easiest for *him*.
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James is still a cipher, though.
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You know how many fans say that they love Snape because of his snarky, caustic sarcasm? Personally, I find Remus' method of insulting without insulting much more appealing.
The key to Remus' character is that he is highly indifferent about most things. He doesn't seem to want. Consequently, if you want to make him act, you need to put him in a situation where he really wants something (difficult) - or in a situation where acting is the right thing to do and people are watching. Remus acts rarely, but if he does, he acts correctly (most of the time at least). He gives the impression of following a manual: A child faints? Give him chocolate. A woman cries? Give her an handkerchief and a pat on the back. Think writing an android who's been programmed to copy human behaviour patterns without understanding them. Or a Jane Austen anti-hero, with smooth, plausible manners that hide an abyss of wickedness.
I'm not sure this helps at all, but it gave me the opportunity to talk about Remus a bit. So thank you.
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Bingo! I'd forgotten about that -- Remus will do the right thing if people are *watching* him and thus he can't wriggle out of it. That's why he's effective when he's with other Order members, but seems to fall apart when it's his responsibility and his alone.
It's rather creepily Gryffindor of him -- he needs to be *seen* doing the right thing to do the right thing.
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There's certain things he's good at and I think he probably enjoys doing those things--like helping Neville with his boggart. He looks good and feels like a nice guy. But when it comes down to it things that would crush most other characters just don't bother him. He doesn't want to be seen as the guy you can't depend on, but he probably lacks the personal committment. Whatever happens he'll just live with it.