Paypal is in the business of being evil...

[neotoma]

twistedchick, this is your trigger warning -- I do not think you want to read this one...



Regretsy broke this one -- a seller sold an antique (pre-WW2) violin, that she had had authenticated by a professional, to a buyer who then disputed it. Paypal ordered him to destroy it -- apparently under the policy of destroying counterfeit (like fake Gucci bags and the like) -- before they would refund the cost of the violin. The $2500 cost of the violin...

And the buyer did it. And sent photos of the destroyed violin to the seller.

WTF?! I mean, seriously, who destroys a violin on the orders of PayPal? Even if it's a cheap modern factory-made violin, wouldn't you at least get a luthier to confirm it value or lack thereof? Especially since with antique and vintage instruments, the maker's marks are often faked -- people 100 years ago faked famous maker's names, just like now -- and often the instrument is quite valuable even though it's a 'fake' because it's an antique fake with good musical quality anyway.

Seriously, I think I can't use PayPal's services anymore. Together with the Christmas Gift debacle, and the time they tried to dictate the ToS for Dreamwidth, I'll just have to find a different money transfer service -- one that isn't run by nincompoops and malevolent jerks.

Anyone have any suggestions?

Comments

[lilacsigil]

Oh God I am shuddering in horror.

[neotoma]

Those images of the destroyed violin are horrifying.

[legionseagle]

It reminds me of 1 April 1985, when there was a threat by Armenian terrorists to blow up the Toronto Metro. My blood thicked with cold at the end of the day when the news announced cheerfully that Metro's finest had blown up a "suspicious package" at the main railway station, which "turned out to be a violin belonging to a member of the Toronto Symphony, but fortunately only an old one."

And it's a ludicrous requirement even for actual counterfeits - I'm in the IP business - and there are well publicised schemes for removing illegal branding from counterfeit clothing and giving the products to homeless shelters and the like.

[neotoma]

I suppose it could have been fortunate in the sense of "it was their practice violin, only worth $10000, not their performance Guaneri del Gesu violin, worth millions" but I kind of doubt it.

I simply can't see how this happened -- especially since PayPal has in its TOS that sometimes you'll be required to mail a disputed item to them or a third party (presumably either law enforcement or a reputable appraiser?).

Simply destroying a $2500 violin is appalling.

I don't know whether differences between Canadian and American law about counterfeits came into this as well, but I worry that it did.

[alexseanchai]

What.

What.

I cannot leave Paypal. Etsy requires Paypal. And the only alternative I know of is Dwolla, which I am reliably informed (heard it from denise's own fingertips) regards user-generated content roughly the way one regards gum one has just stepped on.

[neotoma]

I know. It's so completely irrational as a response to suspected fraud in an antique that I was thunderstruck.

I kind of new that Etsy on uses PayPal... but that just means I am that much less likely to buy from Etsy again.

I didn't know that about Dwolla. That's not good news.

Can you at least use Square when at craft shows? Most of the vendors used it at Small Press Expo this year, and at least one of the farm's at the Saturday farmer's market does.

[alexseanchai]

*beats head on desk* I just want to live a nice simple ethical life. Is that so much to ask, world? IS THAT SO MUCH TO ASK?

...apparently yes.

I had never heard of Square before. Then again I had never looked into taking anything but cash at craft fairs. ETA: And Square is not an option for me because it requires a smartphone. I do not and cannot has smartphone.

[camwyn]

Holy God. I'll let my icon speak for me.

Let me know when you find another transfer service so I can go over to them myself. That's horrible.

My icon speaks for me as well

[neotoma]

I don't know where to even start. Bitcoin is not widely known and fluctuates in value widely. Dwolla apparently doesn't like dealing with user-generated content (wuht?!). And that's about all I know of.

[fyrdrakken]

I'm pretty well stuck with PayPal on Etsy, but since I heard about the Xmas thing I've been making a special point of pulling out the debit card and inputting the numbers when shopping with online vendors, rather than going the lazy route and using PayPal (as I was more likely to do in the past, to avoid having to pull out my wallet).

[neotoma]

I've definitely been refraining from using PayPal since the Christmas debacle, but now I'm tempted to just delete my outcome. Thank goodness I've removed the one bank account I'd linked to Paypal, and closed the account (and moved banks...), because they seemed to pull NASTY tricks with bank accounts, if they want to take money from you.

[zvi]

Not that it is startling more moral, but Amazon does payments. You may also want to check and see if your banking institution offers either personal money sending or if you can use bill pay to send people checks. You might also check with your credit card and see what tricks it is up to these days, both visa and mastercard are looking into the personal payments business.