Random question for German speakers...

[neotoma]

What would be the vocative of 'Gypsy', for someone in the early 1600s, preferably the least polite form? The context is that one teenager is mocking another, while having concealed his background.

This story I'm writing is full of characters behaving badly -- the period language is full of thing that you just don't *say* nowadays. I'm going to walk a fine edge between authenticity and unprintable-ness. Especially considering it is setting in the early American colony, and the Europeans general tone when speaking of the natives was *patronizing* at best.

Comments

[the-little-owl.livejournal.com]

Gypsy translates to "Zigeuner", also in the 17th century, and it was not polite to call someone a Zigeuner because these people were considered dishonest persons per se due to their nomadic lifestyle. The romantic view on gypsies is a product of the 19th century, in 17th century they were regarded as thieves (especially horse thieves) and heathens, were not tolerated in the cities and not for long in villages and had to fear attacks all the time.
There is no special vocative form in German, it's the same as the nominative.

[neotoma.livejournal.com]

Thanks!

What areas of Germany might a young man run into Catholic brothers and the Inquisition during that same time period? Fanon has mentioned Westphalia, but there is nothing in canon to say where exactly he's from -- just that he was arrested by the Inquisition as a witch.

[the-little-owl.livejournal.com]

It depends on the exact year, because witch hunts came and ebbed in waves. A good guess would be Cologne, Trier, Würzburg and Bamberg, all cities ruled by Catholic (arch)bishops and having an infamous history of witchhunts. But witches were also persecuted in Protestant countries.
If you give a year and time until next Wednesday I'll try to find out something more specific.

[neotoma.livejournal.com]

Well, the story is due on Friday, so I'll just take one of the cities you mentioned. The fandom is an alternate history anyway, so I think I can fudge a little.

[lyorn.livejournal.com]

"Zigeuner" as a member of the ethnic group, but it could also be transferred to other traveling people. Probably the least polite because it encapsules "foreigner, traveler, heathen, thief" all in one word.

Other names for traveling people, also not polite but less problematic from today's POV as they describe a lifestyle not an ethnic group: "Vagant", "Landstreicher". (All nominative masculine singular here, which is what you use when calling a man/boy names). The former hints at the person being a criminal in addition to traveling, the latter just at being lazy, dirty and shiftless.

[neotoma.livejournal.com]

The problem is that the other character is canonically Roma -- so I think 'Zigeuner' is the right thing to use. But I'll keep the others in mind, since I think either could fit as well, depending on how many insults they wind up trading.

[lyorn.livejournal.com]

I just discovered that the German Wikipedia has a category for insults (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kategorie:Schimpfwort). (is impressed).

Which led me to a Grimmelshausen quote from 1673, which has "Bettler" (beggar), "Strolch" (tramp [male]), "Zigeuner" and "Mauskopf" (mouse-head)(never heard that one before!) as speakers of Rotwelsch (the language of crooks and travelers).

Also in period is "Gauner" (crook, or someone who cheats at cards -- this word is common today for everyone who's a habitual cheat), and "Galgenstrick", for someone who'll end at the gallows.

This is fun. I haven't heard or used many of those words in ages.